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Empire: Total War - Naval Battles
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Empire: Total War Heaven » Forums » Empire: Total War - Naval Battles » Different ship stats depending on country of origin?
Topic Subject:Different ship stats depending on country of origin?
posted 10-01-12 04:57 PM EDT (US)         
Playing ETW on Mac as Great Britain and noticed ships I've taken into my navy from other nations have different stats than ships I build in my shipyards. Example: british-built sixth rate (Valiant) and captured French sixth rate (Aigle) have the following stats:

Fire Pwr / Range / Accuracy / Reloading / Hull Str. / Spd / Cost / Upkeep
Valiant - 56 / 500 / 60 / 55 / 2198 / 18 / 940 / 189
Aigle - 56 / 500 / 70 / 40 / 2140 / 19 / 1040 / 212

Both ships had zero chevrons. These differences don't seem to be confined to frigates. I captured a french second rate sporting 84 guns and was either slower or faster (can't remember which) than the 86 gun second rate I could build in Portsmouth. That the french ships are faster makes sense as historically the french built really good ships but their crews/officers just sucked compared to their RN counterparts. Am I missing something here that is throwing off the stats (e.g. the effect of seasoning/copper plating techs)? And if the upkeep on captured ships is more than that of a ship I build, it makes no sense to keep captured ships in your navy (which goes against the historical practice of doing exactly that).
posted 10-02-12 00:23 AM EDT (US)     1 / 3       
The British start with seasoned hull already researched, meaning that all ships they construct will have slightly tougher hulls than other states' ships.

The relatively small differences in upkeep costs ordinarily wouldn't be worth decommissioning a captured ship then spending your money (and turns in the game) on building a new one unless you have enough ships already. And by the time you can do that, you should have enough income not to need to worry about the difference all that much.

"Into the face of the young man who sat on the terrace of the Hotel Magnifique at Cannes there had crept a look of furtive shame, the shifty, hangdog look which announces that an Englishman is about to talk French." - P.G. Wodehouse, The Luck of the Bodkins
posted 12-09-12 03:22 AM EDT (US)     2 / 3       
The baseline stats that I'm seeing are totally independent of the techs possessed by each country. Ships constructed by GB have an inherent advantage in their reloading stat. Example: I was playing as Prussia and built a 3rd rate. Its reloading stat was 15. That's with the same tech upgrades and chevrons as GB, who builds new 3rd rates with a reloading stat of 30. Spain and Sweden build sixth rates with a base reloading stat of 50 (instead of 55 for GB sixth rates), and only 60 accuracy (like GB frigates).

Its true that techs seem to effect the hull strength stat (seasoning vs. not having it), but flintlock cannons tech doesn't have any noticeable effect, nor does copper bottoms. I think this reflects a bias, similar to the different stats of each nation's line infantry. My question is whether, over time, it is better to have inherently more accurate french ships or faster reloading english ships?
Francis Marion
posted 12-11-12 09:04 AM EDT (US)     3 / 3       
I've only recently noticed that ship stats tend to differ due to country of origin. In my current GB campaign I've found that British frigates tend to have a 15 point advantage in reload skill over any other frigates in the game, which I was previously unaware of and is an enormous advantage. I did find that French frigates have a 5 point advantage in accuracy over British frigates of the same type.

In regard to the effects on ship stats of the various naval techs in the game, I've done quite a bit of research on this topic but have not yet fully completed it. In the course of doing said research I found that the seasoning and flintlock cannons techs grant no quantifiable upgrade to the hull strength or reload skill stats listed on the unit cards (when viewed on the battle map). However, the copper bottoms, enhanced coppering, and top gallant techs do in fact increase the listed unit speed on naval unit cards (when viewed on the battle map) by the listed factors indicated for each technology.

My personal experience is that for naval units, reload skill value is much more important than the accuracy value when gauging unit battle effectiveness. Take, for example, two 26-gun Brigs, with 12 guns per side and two stern-chasers each: one French and one British, each possessing the same range, hull strength, and speed, engaging one another in a naval encounter. For the sake of argument, let's assume that the French brig has an accuracy of 70 and a reload skill of 50, while the British brig has an accuracy of 65 and a reload skill of 65. In our "encounter", say both ships fire the first salvo in unison. The French brig will likely land 8 of its 12 cannonballs fired (12 guns per side x .70 accuracy, rounded down to whole number), while the British brig will likely land 7 of its 12 cannonballs fired (12 guns per side x .65 accuracy rounded down to whole number). Let's assume for this illustration that every two cannonballs landed destroys one enemy cannon. That means that our French brig now has 8.5 serviceable cannon left on the side which received the first salvo from the British brig, while the British brig now has 8 serviceable cannon remaining on the side which received the salvo from the French brig. However, since the British brig possesses a +15 advantage to reload skill, the British brig will be ready to fire again on the same side in approximately 23% less time than will the French brig (French brig reload skill value of 50 / British brig reload skill of 65 = .77). This means it is likely that the British brig will fire its 8 remaining cannon and land those shots on the French brig prior to the French brig's 8.5 cannons being fully reloaded. This means that the French brig now has only 6 good cannon to respond with (8 shots fired by British brig x .65 accuracy = 5 cannonballs landed, knocking out an additional 2.5 cannon). You can see that this trend will greatly favor the brig with the higher reload value, with the effect of the reload skill advantage only increasing with the length of the engagement and the number of salvos fired.

I have found that the same advantage provided by reload skill in naval encounters holds true for land battles as well, and that the unit with the higher reload skill value is typically more effective than one with only marginally better accuracy. My findings, thus far, have been based on overall impressions rather than a detailed AAR on a naval or land battle between two units with all other factors being equal. Has anyone performed a detailed AAR on such a scenario? I believe the unit with higher reload would come out the winner, but would be very interested in being able to prove out the theory.

[This message has been edited by Francis Marion (edited 12-27-2012 @ 07:52 AM).]

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