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Empire: Total War - Naval Battles
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Empire: Total War Heaven » Forums » Empire: Total War - Naval Battles » If you could add any 1 feature to naval battles?
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Topic Subject:If you could add any 1 feature to naval battles?
burndaddy
Mariner
posted 05-08-09 03:36 PM EDT (US)         
If you could go in, edit the game and add any 1 new feature to the naval battles, what would it be?

This isn't research. I'm not a modder. Just curious. I'm interested to see what people bring up.

Let me preface this by saying I think the naval battle setup in Empire is very good. I'm not being critical of it.

Given the chaotic swirl of the naval battle that is sometimes difficult to control, my vote would be a "general attack" order feature, that gives a ship captain the ability to pursue, broadside and destroy targets of opportunity in it's vicinity.

That, instead of a ship just completing it's movement order and then lowering canvas. Which sometimes happens to me when I'm looking the other way and leaves a ship a sitting duck in the battle around it.

I'm reminded of a quote by Horatio Nelson, "No captain can do very wrong if he places his ship alongside that of the enemy."

"The Plan is Nothing, Planning is Everything," -General Dwight D. Eisenhower

[This message has been edited by burndaddy (edited 05-08-2009 @ 03:41 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
CK the Fat
Mariner
posted 05-08-09 04:27 PM EDT (US)     1 / 37       
I wish the battlefield... or whatever it's called in naval terms... were larger. A pursuit feature would be nice that could auto-resolve what happens when a ship of yours catches up and sinks/captures the fleeing one.

"Republicans who did not play the patronage game were ridiculed as the Mugwumps for sitting on the fence--their "mugs" on one side of the fence and "wumps" on the other. Historians generally consider this era a low point in American politics."--United States History by John J. Newman and John M. Schmalbach
Geordie
Mariner
posted 05-09-09 06:45 AM EDT (US)     2 / 37       
I would like the ability to recruit and post small units of Marines aboard the ship, and actually be able to deploy them as you want - i.e. in the rigging as sharpshooters maybe, or along either of the sides or maybe in ranks at the stern.
Maybe we could even arm them with Sgt. Harper's multi-barrelled Nock gun - great for repelling boarders.
Oh well - guess we can always dream.
Boetje
Mariner
posted 05-09-09 09:52 AM EDT (US)     3 / 37       
Rams underneath the waterline. Submarines. Aircraft carriers. Mutated seals eating wood. Cavemen on logs. Hot air balloons throwing napalm. Cannons in the masts. Puckle guns. Cows. Catapults. Cow catapults. Diamonds.

Oh. You said one...

Yep, it's true, having no sig is boring. But so is this one. Which makes my point... relatively pointless.
Can a point be a point when it is pointless?
Ecthelion
Mariner
(id: p90pro)
posted 05-09-09 07:08 PM EDT (US)     4 / 37       
Heated shot and marine contingents.

Sir, I have not yet begun to defile myself.
Swallow my pride? No thank you, Im too full of myself.
I bring you nothing but love and a shopping bag full of sexual depravity.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
Tied with Meteora (****er) for Best Sig Award.
Smileyman007
Mariner
posted 05-09-09 11:23 PM EDT (US)     5 / 37       
Didn't they promise us sharks at one point?

No, I'm not being sarcastic.
Ecthelion
Mariner
(id: p90pro)
posted 05-10-09 07:02 PM EDT (US)     6 / 37       
Yeah! sharks with lasers attached to their freakin' heads!

Sir, I have not yet begun to defile myself.
Swallow my pride? No thank you, Im too full of myself.
I bring you nothing but love and a shopping bag full of sexual depravity.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
Tied with Meteora (****er) for Best Sig Award.
TotalRog
Mariner
posted 05-11-09 12:24 PM EDT (US)     7 / 37       
Smoke and lots of it.
derfuchs
Mariner
posted 05-11-09 04:47 PM EDT (US)     8 / 37       
Islands, coasts and fortress bombardment
Geordie
Mariner
posted 05-11-09 06:51 PM EDT (US)     9 / 37       
Can I change my mind and go for the laser-equipped sharks?
Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05-12-09 11:05 AM EDT (US)     10 / 37       
Didn't they promise us sharks at one point?
I don't remember that one.

I'd like to see navigational hazards like rocks and sandbanks when fighting close to shore.

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

CK the Fat
Mariner
posted 05-12-09 04:27 PM EDT (US)     11 / 37       
I've never even seen anything resembling a shore during any naval battles, in my experience. Even having one as a pretty distant backdrop would be nice.

(Maybe I just haven't fought enough battles near coasts yet to encounter one, though. I don't think my graphics setting has anything to do with the static backdrop.)

"Republicans who did not play the patronage game were ridiculed as the Mugwumps for sitting on the fence--their "mugs" on one side of the fence and "wumps" on the other. Historians generally consider this era a low point in American politics."--United States History by John J. Newman and John M. Schmalbach
nerdydodge
Mariner
posted 05-12-09 06:46 PM EDT (US)     12 / 37       
I'd like some form of limited AI assistance, representing the captain of each ship. He would make minor tweaks like angling the ship to fire off a broadside each time the cannons are loaded, rather than waiting to be ordered to.
Quincy9219
Mariner
posted 05-12-09 11:40 PM EDT (US)     13 / 37       
Large naval battles are hard to manage. Adding stronger AI for your ships to allow them to move with some personal latitude. Or the ability to issue orders before battles so that the AI could make moves on a preset battle plan. Aside from that dedicated Marines for boarding/defense would be great, but impossible to manage unless the ships were given independent AIs to take some pressure off you
Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05-13-09 08:50 AM EDT (US)     14 / 37       
Oh...and I'd like to see less ships ramming each other.

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

Zakkeh
Mariner
posted 05-14-09 04:26 AM EDT (US)     15 / 37       
I'd like to see ships ABLE to ram each other. At the moment, they kind of...slide off each other. When i ram a ship, it's because I made mistake. When i park my ship in front of an enemy ship, i don't expect them to all of a sudden slide and blow my poor sloop to pieces.
CK the Fat
Mariner
posted 05-14-09 09:04 AM EDT (US)     16 / 37       
Before the patch, ships collided in my battles all the time, and the ship would be pretty much stuck for the rest of the battle since there's no "reverse", clearly.

After the patch, ships will seemingly automatically steer away from collision, or just plain stop. This made their motion a lot less fluid, but more manageable.

"Republicans who did not play the patronage game were ridiculed as the Mugwumps for sitting on the fence--their "mugs" on one side of the fence and "wumps" on the other. Historians generally consider this era a low point in American politics."--United States History by John J. Newman and John M. Schmalbach
Mastah
Mariner
posted 05-18-09 10:40 AM EDT (US)     17 / 37       
I'd like to see ships fighting with land troops. Artillery and ship cannons exchanging fire. Ship barrages towards coastal towns and ports. Actuall landing operations and troops trying to prevent it.
Thrashmad
Mariner
posted 05-20-09 08:07 AM EDT (US)     18 / 37       
That would probably hard to program the game to be able to handle both fleets and land units. It would be cool though, rocket ships and bomb ketches was made to b,abard land targets.

"The satisfaction in this game lies in to see 300 heavy armoured horsemen ride chock in an easy snowfall, while fire arrows criss-crosses the evening sky" - Swedish historian and permanent secretary of The Swedish Academy Peter Englund on Medieval 2: Total War (translated by Thrashmad)

"A game that contains both Carl Linnaeus and five different types of artillery projectiles are indisputable exceedingly detailed." - Peter Englund on Empire: Total War (translated by Thrashmad)
CK the Fat
Mariner
posted 05-20-09 10:49 AM EDT (US)     19 / 37       
I think it would be nice to be able to dock and repair your ships at an allied port, for an increased cost, of course.

"Republicans who did not play the patronage game were ridiculed as the Mugwumps for sitting on the fence--their "mugs" on one side of the fence and "wumps" on the other. Historians generally consider this era a low point in American politics."--United States History by John J. Newman and John M. Schmalbach
TwistedWrister
Mariner
posted 05-20-09 07:22 PM EDT (US)     20 / 37       
definitely some scenery. I have never once seen a spot of land, even while fighting in a narrow channel.

While the land battles have some variety to them, it doesn't seem to matter where one fights at sea, it's all the same blank ocean for miles around...even when right against a coast!

At least some shoreline as scenery in the distance would greatly improve the realism.
JeanBaptiste
Mariner
posted 05-23-09 05:55 AM EDT (US)     21 / 37       
The possibility to enter a port. Also coastal forts.
Attacking a fort with your Naval fleet style Hornblower would be awesome.

A coastline, shallow waters where you can hide with your small frigate style Master and Commander...

Jean-Baptiste Raymond de Lacrosse (Meilhan, 5 September 1761 — Meilhan, 10 September 1829) was a French sailor and admiral, hero of the French Revolutionary Wars.
taccovert4
Mariner
posted 06-01-09 11:11 AM EDT (US)     22 / 37       
Landing ops would be difficult to code, but having unit cards in the left side of the screen on land battles right by the coast wouldn't. These cards would represent ships capable of bombardment, such as bomb ketches, rocket ships, and your ships of the line with their heavy guns. Clicking on a card would bring up a firing arc representing the anchored location of that particular vessel. Seeing as some of these ships have ranges that are pretty extreme (your heavy battleships are mounting up to 64 pounder guns) you should be able to have the captain fire broadsides in support of your own forces. Add in a corresponding inaccuracy due to the lack of modern fire control, but let your battleships turn those 30-50 gun broadsides loose on the enemy field army. 30 rounds of roundshot sweeping across the battlefield would exterminate a unit of line infantry in 1 hit, and naval gunners have always been well known for their precision.

Allow blockading fleets to attack enemy ships in port. Why do your ketches, battleships, and rocket ships sit off the port and wait for the enemy to emerge. The ships should be able to engage the enemy and force them to either be destroyed in place, or come out and fight. You could even add barbette batteries of 32 pounder long guns to the shipyards to make the fight more even.

Allow percussion shells on warships. Once researched, percussion shells should be allowed as an ammo type. After all, explosive rounds were heavily used by battleships once they were suitably developped (though they weren't developped at all in the 18th Century, but since you're allowed to change history a little, why is your navy artificially handicapped?).

Have "Engage with guns" button beside the 'board' button. Simply activate the button then click on an enemy ship. This allows the Captain to bring his ship alongside (your ship will always seek the weather gauge) and open up with guns, firing and loading at will until the enemy vessel sinks or has struck her colors (surrendered). This really shouldn't be hard (your infantry and cavalry already have this function), and would allow you to quickly detail your frigates to hunt down enemy brigs and sloops, and run down routing vessels, allowing you to keep a more exacting control of your line of battle.

While I'm sure Marines are already modelled in 'boarding' actions, having a researchable 'Marine Sharpshooters' ability would be realistic. Once you get rifling, your ships of frigate size and above should be equipped with 125-130 range sharpshooters on each mast, who will target enemy gunnery abovedecks, as well as the enemy admiral. This would give you the ability to take out the enemy admiral early on in an engagement, without having to sink his ship, and reduce the gunnery effectiveness of the enemy's carronades and other topside guns as well as morale. Also, when the grapnels are thrown in a boarding command, the Marines would throw a volley of grenades onto the enemy vessel. Sharpshooters would be killed slowly by either other sharpshooters or by chain shot. Losing a mast would kill off the sharpshooters stationed on it wholesale.

I'm not sure about this, but I'd also like to see infantry being transported by a ship involved in the boarding action. If you've got a 3rd rate carrying say, a unit of grenadiers, I want the grenadiers to be added to the crew for purposes of boarding, as their firepower, melee, and grenades would provide a huge bolster to your crew. There would be no separate commands, all units on board a ship would participate in the boarding action firing and melee at will with no assistance or control from the human player.
taccovert4
Mariner
posted 06-01-09 11:14 AM EDT (US)     23 / 37       
Lastly, what's the point of sloops, brigs, and 6th rates if there is only 'By the Deep 6' ocean all around. I want to see some shallows, shoals, channels, inlets, and beaches modelled. My sloop should be able to dash away from your 3rd rate overtop of a shoal, and your 3rd rate become stuck fast to the bottom, giving me the ability to race astern and give you raking broadside after raking broadside.

Also, I want to be able to place my indirect fire ships (Rockets and mortars) on the other side of a Caribbean Islet and thrash your line of battle as they move by without worrying about return fire. Otherwise there's really no point to having the buggers at all.

[This message has been edited by taccovert4 (edited 06-01-2009 @ 11:16 AM).]

Primo
Mariner
(id: Marcus Orentius)
posted 06-01-09 11:55 AM EDT (US)     24 / 37       
I want to see weather. At the moment, everywhere in the world has the same weather at sea, giving no challenge against the elements as well as the enemy fleet. I also want the naming scheme for fleets on the campaign map. 'Navy Portugal' is frankly horrendous.

Exilian - a website for mods for Mount&Blade, Rome Total War, Empire Total War and news about Shogun 2: Total War
"There is no extreme metal, death metal, progressive metal or vegetarian metal." - Tryhard
"Light infantry, rangers, and riflemen all have the unique ability to pull yard-long poles from their arseholes and plant them in order to stave off cavalry." - BurningSushi460
Zakkeh
Mariner
posted 06-01-09 05:51 PM EDT (US)     25 / 37       
Hehe, I can see the tornadoes and whirlpools now...
Lenardius VII
Mariner
posted 06-01-09 10:09 PM EDT (US)     26 / 37       
i would include the Flying Dutchman...naval power at 100% turn 1.

"Maybe someday we could become friends. Friends who ride majestic, translucent steeds, shooting flaming arrows across the bridge of Hemdale."
finian1712
Mariner
posted 06-18-09 02:33 PM EDT (US)     27 / 37       
I would love to be able to post marines in specific places like order them into the rigging or on the quarterdeck to help board. But my firts choice would be that when you are transporting an armt that the best shots in each unit say 15 men would help out you're marines and pick of the men, that would be awesome. So if I had 5 regiments of line infanrty on 5 different ships each ship would recieve 10 extra men who would stay on the ship when it boards and when not boarding would fire at the enemy.
Ecthelion
Mariner
(id: p90pro)
posted 06-18-09 05:26 PM EDT (US)     28 / 37       
I still want heated shot as a way to equalize battles between small ships and large ones.

Sir, I have not yet begun to defile myself.
Swallow my pride? No thank you, Im too full of myself.
I bring you nothing but love and a shopping bag full of sexual depravity.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
Tied with Meteora (****er) for Best Sig Award.
KIWI TYRANT
Mariner
posted 08-31-09 07:03 PM EDT (US)     29 / 37       
I would like to see actual sea currents, adding another tier of strategy to go with the wind direction. Wind against tide would chop up an otherwise calm sea, making the smaller boat's cannon fire more inaccurate compared to a larger, more stable, ocean going ship. Extreme, yet rare, combination's of wind and tide could spawn dangerous anomalies like water spout's or whirlpool's, which could turn the tide of any battle. Strait's and island's (wish they had included them on the battle screen) would have much faster current's, presenting new strategic opportunities for using the smaller vessel's.

I would also like to see an option for the smaller boat's to sail some way up the major river's. Thus invading troop's could be dropped off deeper into an unsuspecting rival's territory, instead of only on the coast. Sailing up a river could be potentially fraught with danger, but the resulting battle scene's of wind, tide, riverside fort's etc. would be highly gratifying!

"...the strong did what they could, and the weak suffered what they must" - Thucydides
Primo
Mariner
(id: Marcus Orentius)
posted 08-31-09 07:09 PM EDT (US)     30 / 37       
Cannons in the masts.
You laugh, I believe they did have cannons in the masts curing that period, although they were small 'pop-guns' designed for killing men rather than blowing holes in ships.

Exilian - a website for mods for Mount&Blade, Rome Total War, Empire Total War and news about Shogun 2: Total War
"There is no extreme metal, death metal, progressive metal or vegetarian metal." - Tryhard
"Light infantry, rangers, and riflemen all have the unique ability to pull yard-long poles from their arseholes and plant them in order to stave off cavalry." - BurningSushi460
MUZZIAH
Mariner
posted 09-03-09 03:09 PM EDT (US)     31 / 37       
I would very much like to see the entire naval combat scrapped and replaced with Sid Meirs Pirates. lmao.

Serious tho the reality which was double boarding. When 2 ships would attach themselves to each side of the target vessel combining crews in boarding.

As it stands. With only 1 ship being able to board at any 1 time. Completely unrealistic. I mean its like CA ripped their naval combat from Sid Meirs Pirates (badly), Pirates took some thought into placing reefs (tear a hole in the bottom of your first rate but your sloop could navigate), ports (blockade 1 of these badboys and get pounded with cannon emplacements) and coasts (once again smaller ships could navigate better than larger); wind was a factor on the campaign map so you could choose from which direction to engage. CA seems to be under the impression that the ship Graphics (which do look fantastic!) r more important than creating an accurate naval sim. Its a real shame naval sims went backwards with the release of EMPIRE
Quentillius
Mariner
posted 09-28-09 12:18 PM EDT (US)     32 / 37       
The ability to bombard land. It happened a lot around the period.
LeGiT
Mariner
posted 09-28-09 01:04 PM EDT (US)     33 / 37       
Definately the ability to Ram other ships (perhaps an individual command, like Board.). This would obviously caus severe damage to both ships, and I wouldn't even want to try ramming my Sloop or Light Galley against a 3rd Rate Ship of the Line, but there are so many scenarios where, if my ship is burning - or I if I simply get the urge to run over an opposing Brig with my 1st Rate Ship of the Line, it would make quite the spectacular screenshots...

Formerly HereticPope, member of these forums for ~2? years.~

Total War Veteran. Since Medieval I. GG.
rferrier
Mariner
posted 09-28-09 03:42 PM EDT (US)     34 / 37       
I'd like to see boarding become a bigger part of things. Seriously, I don't think I've tried to board a ship since maybe the first engagement I tried some months ago. It would just be fun I think.
Waffentraeger
Mariner
(id: Daelon)
posted 09-28-09 06:41 PM EDT (US)     35 / 37       
Slower cannon barrages.
LeGiT
Mariner
posted 09-28-09 09:39 PM EDT (US)     36 / 37       
Boarding is a risky business. If you time it wrong, you could get a full-broadside turned upon you, possibly routing your ship. I find its easier just to cripple an enemy ship with raking fire than it is to try to capture it. Then again, my navies are usually more advanced than my oppositions (I place huge significance in controlling trade - moreso denying my enemies than gaining my own.)

Formerly HereticPope, member of these forums for ~2? years.~

Total War Veteran. Since Medieval I. GG.
Aftermath
HG Alumnus
posted 09-29-09 05:39 AM EDT (US)     37 / 37       
Some more variety in the battles - around islands, coasts and even coastal forts would be fantastic. No ground combat, just naval.

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