We’re sorry but we are currently still working on support for IE6 because of its non-compliance with common web standards. In the meantime, please consider upgrading to Internet Explorer 7, FireFox, Apple Safari, or Google Chrome.

TWH »

Empire: Total War Heaven



You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Empire: Total War - Land Battle Discussion
Moderated by Pitt, Awesome Eagle

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.9 replies
Empire: Total War Heaven » Forums » Empire: Total War - Land Battle Discussion » Complete defeat in first battle
Bottom
Topic Subject:Complete defeat in first battle
salilsurendran
Mariner
posted 03-07-10 09:00 PM EDT (US)         
Hello Team,
In my first land battle in Empire: Total War, I was fighting some tribe in Russia in 1701. Even though I hadn't provoked a battle they attacked me and I was outnumbered 700:420. I had a platoon of pikemen, one line infantry, one ranger, and two armed citizenry. The battle was over in less than 2 mins. These are the questions I have:

1. There were woods near me. Should I hide my troops there. Will it be give me an advantage that I will remain hidden or will it be a disadvantage for me because the woods would not let my troops shoot.
2. Same question with buildings. Should I put some of my troops in buildings? So that they can fire from the windows? Does this happen
3. I had a platoon of pikemen. I know they are very effective against cavalry. However, when the cavalry charged they were far away from the action? How do I predict where the cavalry will charge.
4. Is there a way in the game to survive such odds. Or is it best to retreat when such a situation occurs?
AuthorReplies:
Pitt
Commodore
posted 03-07-10 09:18 PM EDT (US)     1 / 9       
Hello, and welcome to ETW. (I don't think I've said it before now)

What were their forces made up of? If they had a lot of cavalry, for example, I would be highly reticent to fight them with the units you had.

1. Woods can give an advantage when you want to take an enemy by surprise, or sometimes to break up the impetus of a cavalry charge (there may be fallen logs etc in the wood). Whether or not you use them really depends on the context - in your case it probably wouldn't have helped much, but it could in other battles. If you have one exposed unit and the rest hidden, the AI will generally go for the exposed unit.

2. Buildings can be useful, other times less so. When facing cavalry it can be a good idea to garrison weaker units such as armed citizenry in them. But it does reduce the firepower they can bring to bear, as there are only a limited number of windows.

3. Cavalry under AI control will often make wide flanking moves, especially if you have artillery behind a battle line. They are unlikely to charge straight at pikemen. I usually put them on each flank or as a reserve behind the centre of my line.

4. It's best to retreat - there's not much point in fighting a battle only to lose your entire army. Live to fight another day.

If you're going to fight in Russia, or anywhere in any theatre for that matter, it's pretty much essential to have at least one cavalry unit - as a fast-moving reserve, to counter opposing cavalry, and to chase fleeing enemies so they can't escape and fight you again later.

"Into the face of the young man who sat on the terrace of the Hotel Magnifique at Cannes there had crept a look of furtive shame, the shifty, hangdog look which announces that an Englishman is about to talk French." - P.G. Wodehouse, The Luck of the Bodkins

[This message has been edited by Pitt (edited 03-07-2010 @ 09:20 PM).]

steace43
Mariner
posted 03-07-10 11:31 PM EDT (US)     2 / 9       
4. It's best to retreat - there's not much point in fighting a battle only to lose your entire army. Live to fight another day.
I don't think he was able to, he mentions armed citizens, so I assume it was a siege.

Still, we need to know more. What troops did they have? Am I right in assuming it was a siege? What kind of defenses did you have if so?

llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
salilsurendran
Mariner
posted 03-08-10 11:06 PM EDT (US)     3 / 9       
What does keep some troops on the flank mean? Does it mean to keep two platoons on the sides of the main group facing the enemy or should they be in a V shape such that they act as a funnel towards the main group of troops like cannons or pikemen? If I do keep them that way what prevents the enemy from going around and attacking from the back? In such a case should I rotate the flanks to face the flanking enemy? Lets say I keep the pikemen in the centre what prevents their riflemen to fire straight at the pikemen who has no range at all?
Pitt
Commodore
posted 03-09-10 06:38 AM EDT (US)     4 / 9       
It just means to have them on each side of your force, guarding the flanks. It can be in a V-formation, a straight line, or a refused flank (which I tend to prefer if I can't anchor my line on something).

With the limited number of troops you had, a V-formation probably isn't the best choice available because you wouldn't have enough men to make it work properly. The enemy would simply flank you and hit the exposed flank units in their sides or rear.

"Into the face of the young man who sat on the terrace of the Hotel Magnifique at Cannes there had crept a look of furtive shame, the shifty, hangdog look which announces that an Englishman is about to talk French." - P.G. Wodehouse, The Luck of the Bodkins
pickledpickles
Mariner
posted 05-20-10 10:11 PM EDT (US)     5 / 9       
buildings can actually be very effective. for two reaons
1 that AI is retarded, and if you hve a battles timer on, you an usually just ist out the game, while they piss around on the other side of the map (ive won about 10 battles this way)

2 horses and pikeman cant attack units in buildings (to my knowledge) or otherwise the AI doesnt use those units to attack buildings.

if you about to lose a region, i always fight and try and kill as many of the enemy as possible, call it spite if you will, but it makes it easier to take the place back next turn
Schwerpunkt
Rake
posted 08-04-10 03:05 PM EDT (US)     6 / 9       
These are some basic techniques to use against AI.

Back corner setup:
If you are attacked, set up on the high ground in a back corner of your deployment zone. This causes a number of things. If the enemy does not have mobile artillery they will have to abandon their cannons and race their gun crews toward you. Gun crews are faster than line infantry and they often become widely separated from the supporting infantry and the wide flanking cavalry. They then die quickly and isolated.

Additionally, the cavalry moves faster than the line infantry and often arrive well ahead of the main body. Basically the back corner set-up causes the AI to separate their advance thereby allowing you to mass your combat power on the piecemeal commitment of enemy forces. This is known as defeat in detail.

Bait the Ambush:
AI likes to kill your command unit, this unit is the one with the star in the icon, or the general. In your example you stated you had: a platoon of pikemen, one line infantry, one ranger, and two armed citizenry. I will continue based on the assessment that your command unit was the line infantry.

Once in the back corner, and the battle has begun, reposition your forces to maximize the terrain.

Get your back against the red boundary line to avoid being out flanked. Place your command unit (line infantry in this example) center-mass and forward in your defense. Directly behind him employ your pikemen as a strike force. Some people call this a reserve but technically a reserve cannot be assigned a mission other than being the reserve.

Your pikemen have a clear mission, they are to be passed through by your command unit and charge the enemy unit(s) which caused you to retrograde your line infantry.

Rangers are deployed in trees along either flank. They will charge the back of your enemy’s main attack once you have blunted his main attack with your pikeman striking force.

The armed citizens are positioned to either side of the line infantry and parallel to your pikemen. Their task is to close the flanks of the enemy main attack or, if that is not possible, stand or fall. In either case they will buy you time.

Time which you use to blunt the enemies main thrust and then once paused, you fix bayonets and plunge your command unit back through the pikemen as the rangers slam into the back and the citizens are closing the flanks of the formation.

Set up looks a bit like this:
(the dashes provide spacing as this word program does not appropriate spaces for distance)

-------AC------P------AC-----
----------------LI
RGR


All that stated, your first task is to assess the layout of the enemy at the very start of the game. Then invest your gold in reinforcing units/provinces immediately. I suspect the other actions of your initial turn were invested in building or upgrading infrastructure.

Build your army to hold what you have or you will not have anything to hold.

[This message has been edited by Schwerpunkt (edited 08-04-2010 @ 03:09 PM).]

CliffBarney
Mariner
posted 08-07-10 07:43 AM EDT (US)     7 / 9       
How 'bout if I hide everyone in the woods except my command unit. And then I run the command unit from corner to corner until the timer runs out. Is this cheating?? Yeah, I do know (from experience) that the poor buggers in the command unit will be routed by the enemy cavalry, but then one of the hidden units becomes the new command unit, and the running begins again.
Hussarknight
Seraph Emeritus
posted 08-08-10 04:37 AM EDT (US)     8 / 9       
The downside is that losing your command unit will give a morale penalty to all your troops. Also it only works against the AI as a human player will know you've hidden troops somewhere.

          Hussarknight
CliffBarney
Mariner
posted 08-08-10 08:37 AM EDT (US)     9 / 9       
Yeah, I know that anyone with intelligence would go after the hidden units, but not the stupid AI (which is all I've ever played against so far). But is it considered cheating to just hide everyone and run your command unit from corner to corner??? You can even run out the clock with no casualties if your command unit is light cavalry and can outrun all the AI troops.

Wish we had Smilies on this forum!

Speaking of the dumb AI: With your troops hidden -- every once in awhile you expose one of them for a minute or two, and the entire AI army marches towards it. Then you hide the unit again and the AI just shruggs and returns to where it was.
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Empire: Total War Heaven | HeavenGames